Talk:General Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union

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Old talk

I think this should be a list of them but am going to do some research Secretlondon 18:19, Nov 7, 2003 (UTC)

We have a list, linked to from Leonid Brezhnev etc. It would be cool for this article to explain why this post was the most powerful, relationship to other top jobs in the SU, etc. I was surprised not to find anything specific, considering how much is in WP about the US president. Stan 19:07, 7 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Expansion

There's way too little on how Stalin used the few powers the office gave him initially to turn it into so much more. One might think the powers of this position came from nowhere. VolatileChemical 02:37, 11 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Many westerns would LOVE for people to think Stalin was some brute that was sneaky, etc, etc. The usual propaganda. Now, by the end of the Russian civil war, Stalin was Commissar of Nationalities, which he dealt with the affairs of 65 million people out of 140. He proposed the new Union of Socialist Soviet Republics as a substitute for the existing federation. He was also Commissar of the Workers’ and Peasants Inspectorate which gave him control over thousands of bureaucrats and thus the entire machinery of government. As well as a member of the Politburo, where his job was the day-to-day management of the party, permanent liaison officer between the Politburo and the Orgburo which made decisions about organizational work in the USSR. He also became the General Secretary of the party’s Central Committee where he prepared agenda for the Politburo. With holding so many key positions, Stalin had an ENORMOUS advantage in attaining power. For people who are reading this, PLEASE look past the German propaganda, then Western propaganda then the propaganda of a rotting USSR to bolster its own image of the "Stalinist" era. I implore you to look at other resources than what you are given with no viable refrences.

~G

But it's important to realize too that Stalin was given those positions by Lenin, who knew their worth, as a means of using Stalin to counterbalance Trotsky. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.70.69.148 (talk) 07:06, 17 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Title mistranslated?

Isn't the current title a mistranslation? It seems to me that the correct translation is "Secretary General of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union" (rather than "General Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union"), similar to "Secretary General of the United Nations", "Attorney General", etc. 130.126.108.129 (talk) 13:17, 12 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Nope, its a common fault however, but no...... --TIAYN (talk) 13:29, 12 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

And why not, exactly? Semantically, the phrase "General Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union" conveys incorrect or at least misleading meaning to an English speaker. It suggests the same meaning as in "general contractor" or "general knowledge", whereas the actual Russian word used in the title ("Генеральный") is the same word as that is used in Russian military titles, such as Major-general or Prosecutor General. In fact, Wikipedia has an article Prosecutor General of Russia which translates (in my opinion, correctly), the Russian title "Генеральный Прокурор Российской Федерации". 130.126.108.129 (talk) 14:11, 12 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Because General Secretary is whats commonly used by academic material + Russian wikipedia uses "General Secretary" not "Secretary General" --TIAYN (talk) 16:41, 12 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

General Secretary is a position in political parties and trade unions, and doesn't seem to be the same thing as the position of Secretary General in quasi-governmental organisations like the UN and NATO.--109.152.242.28 (talk) 01:17, 25 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It can be Secretary General to, for instance, Saddam Hussein was Secretary General of the National Command of the Arab Socialist Ba'ath Party (Iraq-based). --TIAYN (talk) 06:34, 25 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Malenkov

Was Malenkov ever elected/appointed as the Fist Secretary of CPSU? My understand is that the position of First Secretary was instituted in Sept 1953 and that Khruschev was the first person to hold it. Does anyone have any references for the supposed March 1953 service by Malenkov as First Secretary? Nsk92 (talk) 18:19, 24 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

No, he wasn't he has no business being in that list which is not for the more ambiguous "party leadership" but for the clearly defined position of General/First Secretary. Str1977 ^(talk) 16:45, 11 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have a source for that? I have a world history book which lists Malenkov as General-Secretary, and unless someone can find a more definitive source in a week or two I am going to add him. Richard75 (talk) 23:46, 27 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

No objections, so added with a source. Since this article is tagged as lacking in references, please do not revert or undo without citing a reliable source demonstrating that Malenkov does not belong on this list. Richard75 (talk) 14:45, 9 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Malenkov never had the official title of First Secretary - in fact the position of First Secretary was not officially created until Sept 1953 and Khruschev was the first one to hold it. Western sources are notoriously bad in understanding the Soviet party/power hierarchy and often use various terms like First Secretary, President, Premier etc in a careless and informal way. Russian sources are much more accurate and careful in this regard. There are no Russian sources that list Malenkov as First Secretary and all Russian sources simply describe his position as Secretary of the Central Committee of the CPSU, e.g. here [1], [2]. A more careful look at the sources[3][4] shows that on March 5, 1953 Malenkov's name was listed first in the list of five Secretaries of the Central Committee of CPSU (but he did not have the formal title of First Secretary) and that on March 14, 1953 he resigned (or was removed from the post) as a Secretary of the Central Committee of CPSU. But being the first in the list of Secretaries is not at all the same as holding the position of First Secretary. Therefore I am removing Malenkov from this article - he does not belong here. Nsk92 (talk) 15:02, 9 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Then why is Stalin on this list? If as you say Khruschev was the first one to hold the title, then it should start with him. It's inconsistent to have Stalin but not Malenkov. Stalin himself only ever signed documents as "Secretary of the Central Committee." Also, the third source you cite says that Malenkov was first secretary: "On March 14, 1953, Malenkov was forced to relinquish his position as first secretary of the CPSU Central Committee." Richard75 (talk) 15:58, 9 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Stalin had the official (not just informal) title of General Secretary and it is generally accepted that the titles/positions of General Secretary/First Secretary of the Central Committee of the CPSU were essentially equivalent. In case of Malenkov calling him first secretary is a informal and unofficial designation. His correct titles, as reflected by all Russian sources, were Secretary of the Central Committee of the CPSU and the Chairman of the Council of Ministers of the USSR. Nsk92 (talk) 15:59, 9 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Then you may wish to edit the Georgy Malenkov accordingly. Richard75 (talk) 13:35, 10 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Good point, I have corrected the info there as well. Nsk92 (talk) 13:57, 10 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Malenkov was neither General nor First Secretary. Turning a list of General Secretaries into a "List of Secretaries" is not feasible as then we would have to include all the other secretaries of the CC, making the list much larger and also missing what the list actually tried to inform us about. Str1977 ^(talk) 13:30, 6 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Most sources mention that Malenkov was General/First Secretary as well as Premier from shortly after Stalin's death until September 1953 (when the Politburo forced him to choose between party and ministerial posts, and he chose to retain the premiership), but he doesn't feature in the list here at all.--109.152.242.28 (talk) 01:07, 25 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

He was a Secretary of the Secretariat, and since he was the leading secretary he was the unofficial First Secretary (the leading secretary held the post of General Secretary, but that post was abolished in 1952, so thats why he is not part of the lst). --TIAYN (talk) 07:23, 25 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

So called "Ridiculous"

Floquenbeam: Ridiculous is to write what's contradictory to scientific historical and other quite reliable sources? Well, then I should consider that the Earth revolves around the Sun, all the Jews should be killed since they "killed" Jesus, and the Earth is flat, so on. I'm not a bigot, I base my edits on concrete sources. I like uncyclopedia, and when I can, I edit there, but I think this is not Uncyclopedia, though you think it is. Urgup-tur (talk) 01:08, 23 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Urgup-tur: It looks ridiculous because it looks ugly.. Secondly, why on earth should the article mention their birthplace? Their birthplace had nothing to do with the fact that they were appointed General Secretary in the first place.. --TIAYN (talk) 08:17, 23 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Urgup-tur, your reply makes no sense - literally, zero sense - and seems to indicate that you may not be competent to edit here. If you're just spouting off random accusations because you're upset, then pull yourself together and stop it. Yes, by all means, please edit on Uncyclopedia. But if you choose to edit here, then follow our norms, or you will be blocked from editing. I don't care whether the information you wanted to add to the article's table is added or not, but putting it before the introduction was silly. That material is disputed, so you need to get consensus here before re-adding it. If you and TIAYN do not agree or compromise, then seek a 3rd opinion or other dispute resolution method. If you do not want to do it this way, then go somewhere else. --Floquenbeam (talk) 14:37, 23 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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