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Talk:Bibliography of Philip K. Dick#Lede

Hello. On the request of Ed Fitzgerald, I have evaluated some aspects of your recent conflict with him. I have no opinion on the issue, but I find your comments in the thread linked to above to be needlessly personally aggressive and I would ask you to tone it down a bit. Both of you should focus on the editorial issue at hand, not on any personal issues you might have with each other. Please consider also not to issue templated warnings to established editors in the future, because some (not I) perceive this practice to be rude. Best, Sandstein (talk) 07:57, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

P.S.: Specifically, this edit is out of line, as it amounts to a threat of edit warring. I'll be watching the article for a limited period of time and may decide to block any editor engaging in edit warring. Sandstein (talk) 08:03, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

user:hopiakuta/_¡¿_doppelgänger_:_Please_do_not_delete_this_evidence_of_wikipedia_racism,_wikiracism,_wæklypædia._Thank_You.

I do not know how to respond.

Thank You,

[[ hopiakuta Please do sign your signature on your message. ~~ Thank You. -]] 02:25, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Hawaii Newsletter (again)

Greetings, Viriditas! It's time again to work on the newsletter. All ideas are appreciated; I'd just like to keep communication flowing between us. – Obento Musubi (C • G • S) 06:50, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the congrats! Yeah, I do need your help. I've been so busy with school, and I'm sick right now, and I know I can't do this by myself. – Obento Musubi (C • G • S) 16:31, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for wishing me good health. I'm feeling better, and I have no fever. Anyway, I will try to get working on the newsletter, although I know that I probably won't be able to work on the June newsletter. The whole month, I will need to catch up, study for finals, and I think I'm pretty busy. The July newsletter should be okay, though, 'cause school would be done. Just letting you know in advance. – Obento Musubi (C • G • S) 00:44, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
It sounds very good to me. I'm sorry I can't help. Fever just came back, and I'm coughing like there's no tomorrow. I feel terrible. – Obento Musubi (C • G • S) 17:46, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

No, thank you!

Thank you so much for fixing up the references on the aloha page. I apologize, I am so focused on content I forget about wikifying. Hope you're feeling better. Makana Chai (talk) 07:13, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Kavebear

Hi, I have been recently writing articles about descendant of Kamehameha the Great's brother Kalokuokamaile since the internet simply has so little about it. I created the article House of Keoua Nui by pasting the article of House of Kawananakoa and adding a few changes here and there without changing the basic format. I a little confused of what to really call it should it be House of Laanui, which is the way it is right now, or House of Keoua Nui or House of Kalokuokamaile. I apologize about the edits I did to User:Nnythm's edit on Robert Kalanikupuapaikalaninui Wilcox II. I have replied to him saying about my habit of not using the edit summary which only use in rare occassions.KAVEBEAR (talk) 02:05, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Colors

I modified Template:Infobox Hawaiian Royalty so it was almost like Template:Infobox British Royalty with the exception of the Kuhina Nui slot. Eventhough I added the Kuhina Nui slot it does not show up in Kamehameha II when I enter it in. Also do you know the code name for the colors on the infoboxes because I can't figure it out. KAVEBEAR (talk) 02:24, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Merging

The article Pāpā and Papahanaumoku referred to the same goddess both are wife of Wakea and the Hawaiian Earth Mother. I think there was probably a mistake. I think they should be mergedKAVEBEAR (talk) 02:24, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Puppetry?

I'll give him a reasonable time to answer, i.e. sometime today, then I'll scratch out or delete or whatever seems appropriate, if necessary; probably delete, as it's off-topic anyway. Just to be clear, I already have rollback privilege, he simply questioned whether I should have gotten it, and it was a fair complaint, since I had crossed the 3RR line with him earlier this year. Rollback, in fact, is simply a keystroke-saver, nothing more, unless I'm overlooking something. It comes in handy quickly zapping the many vandalisms I run into daily on articles that I watch (which is too long a list at this point). Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 15:23, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Actually, he hasn't been on yet today, but I'll go ahead and delete. I got your attention, anyway. Be aware that I hardly ever suffer "hurt feelings" by anything anyone says here. I just don't like being mis-characterized. If there is anything out there, he'll let me know, and if not, then "dat's dat". P.S. I'm not watching those article pages anymore, as the questions I had about them have been answered. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 15:34, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Welcome menu template

Hi,

Per your suggestion a while back, I'm using the {{WelcomeMenu}} template. Twice I've added it, and twice it's come up with odd substitution problems: [1] and [2]. I'm confused, and am curious what is up with that! And since you suggested using the template, you're the one I came to with my problem : ) Thanks, WLU (talk) 19:14, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Ah, never mind, it's a subst: problem! Now it's the Best Template Evar! Thanks. WLU (talk) 19:16, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
You may not think it's funny, you may not have any idea what I'm talking about, but check out the template used in the footnotes section [3]. WLU (talk) 20:40, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Ed's RfC

Much obliged to you for your work on Ed's RfC over the past few hours. Well rescued. --Tagishsimon (talk) 17:17, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes, very good selective use of diffs. I especially liked your retelling of the "Leon" story - good stuff. Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz) (talk / cont) 21:46, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Update

How's the newsletter coming? I'll check on it soon, make some minor edits. Could you also ID the flower on my userpage? I took it a couple of years ago, but I don't know what it is. – Obento Musubi (C • G • S) 19:16, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Thank you so much! Wow, that was pretty quick; I didn't expect that at all! Now I remember where I took it. I took it at a place called Gaylord's on Kauai, where we had a continental breakfast. Cheers! – Obento Musubi (C • G • S) 18:54, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks. Maybe you'll relate with me (or not), but the vog here is killing me. Have you heard about Halemaumau and Kilauea? Geez, there's so much vog, and with my asthma, that can't be good. So... I'm still coughing. – Obento Musubi (C • G • S) 08:51, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
Sounds like a great idea. It's clearing for us too. It must've been absolutely horrifying on Maui. But, yeah, it's the worst I've ever experienced. Do you want to do a rush copy of the May newsletter about this, or should we save it for June? – Obento Musubi (C • G • S) 17:45, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Drug Policy

I would like to invite you to join WikiProject Drug Policy. My hope is that this project will be able to consolidate and organize drug policy-related articles into a coherent set and coordinate efforts to bring some core articles to featured level. Chin Chill-A Eat Mor Rodents (talk) 18:46, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

2 things

Toddst1 (talk) 07:10, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

AWB for newsletter

Am I running AWB this month for the newsletter delivery? I know I've been barely involved so far on it but I'm happy to do it and would like the task, plus I'm not encountering the glitch that you're having problems with. If you want me to do it, let me know which evening this week I should run it so we can coordinate together to do it. --MPerel 07:44, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Ok, let me know when it's ready and I'll deliver : ) --MPerel 05:13, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Re: Admin Coaching

I did participate in it. Sadly, the coach I got wasn't very kind to me, and retired from admin coaching (after like a month after starting). I think you would make a wonderful admin coach... if you were an admin. Thank you for helping me so much. – Obento Musubi (C • G • S) 02:55, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorta indifferent regarding the ʻ}okina and kahako, but I usually add it in the titles and move it. For example, a lanai (verandah, with no ʻokina) is different from Lanaʻi, the island. – Obento Musubi (C • G • S) 02:58, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
You know, that's a great idea. Thanks for having so much confidence in me. Someday, karma will get you, and you will be an administrator here... no, a bureaucrat. You keep up the good work, and I ought to give you a barnstar or an award of some sort. – Obento Musubi (C • G • S) 04:11, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
Ah, pshaw... I'm doing it now. My internet connection is just really slow right now. – Obento Musubi (C • G • S) 04:30, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for all of your help with the newsletter. It looks great. Absolutely great. :) – Obento Musubi (C • G • S) 04:38, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

The thing is, I'm not sure if I'll really tend to participate in that. If I do become an administrator, I'll probably become an administrator that protects pages, blocks anonymous IP addresses and speedy deletes pages. – Obento Musubi (C • G • S) 18:15, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. I thank you very much. – Obento Musubi (C • G • S) 21:54, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Aloha Tower

Thanks, but I'm familiar with the rules governing galleries. I'm also familiar with the outline at BRD. In general, people who employ BRD to explain their rationale are doing so in order to preserve their version of the page and to justify any future reversion. For this reason, I ignore (and will continue to ignore) people any time they start quoting it.

My concern at Aloha Tower isn't that there's a gallery on the page, but that none of the images are actually of Aloha Tower. None of them are relevant to the article and everything in those pictures is wikilinked earlier in the article (with the pictures to accompany their respective articles). If there was a gallery of pictures of Aloha Tower, I wouldn't care, but as it is we have a bunch of pictures of things that aren't the subject of the article and are thusly somewhat confusing to the reader.

I hope this satifies the D in BRD and we don't have to keep arguing over a bunch of stupid pictures. Cumulus Clouds (talk) 05:53, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

not wanting to intrude or something....

....but doing two reverts and then one removal of text on 24 hours sort of goes against the spirit of 3RR, if not against its letter. However, I would say that Viriditas did *not* violate 3RR because his last edit was to move the disputed paragraph to the talk page to continue improving it and stop an edit war. I notice that Arcayne has done 3 reverts on 24 hours. --Enric Naval (talk) 00:10, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Hawaiʻi WikiProject Newsletter - Issue II - May 2008

Aloha. The May 2008 issue of the Hawaiʻi WikiProject newsletter has been published. To change your delivery options or unsubscribe, visit this link. Mahalo nui loa. WikiProject Hawaiʻi 17:39, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Blocked

 Blocked: three days for edit warring. You and Arcayne are both recalcitrant edit warriors, and have been going at it for several days on Children of Men, and it's getting quite disruptive. The discussion on the talk page seems to have spiraled into mudslinging and I can't forsee any useful conversation coming from it, so some time on the bench may be beneficial for both you and the situation at the article. When you come back from your block, please remember to make use of our various avenues of dispute resolution instead of bypassing the negotiating stage with hostile behavior such as continuous reverting. east.718 at 18:59, May 1, 2008
This is not an unblock request, as the cards are stacked against me, but 2 reverts a day to a new version of the article in a 24 hour period is not "continuous reverting". I have been actively involved in a talk page discussion, one RFC, and two noticeboard discussions during each edit. If you take a look at the edit history starting on April 22, you'll see that Arcayne has attempted to revert every edit that I've made to the page, including at least three different compromise versions that maintained and preserved his edits to avoid an edit war. This recent edit shows that I expanded the article with new content and merged the previous version into other sections as a compromise. No other previous version reflects this change and no information was removed. Expansion and editing are not edit warring. However, without any discussion or explanation, Arcayne [4] reverted my edits one minute later[5]. I reverted since no explanation or discussion for this blanket reverted had been provided and Arcayne reverted me again [6] without discussion or explanation. This was his third reversion in 24 hours, after previously reverting me here. I have made every attempt to resolve this dispute and in my latest edit, I have attempted to preserve, not remove the edits of the other editor. Since April 22, every edit I have made has been reverted in bad faith by Arcayne, while my initial response to each initial revert is to develop a compromise version, none of which have ever been accepted by Arcayne. I have discussed every edit I've ever made to this article and I've worked very hard to accept the consensus of the RFC and noticeboard discussions, all of which have been rejected by Arcayne. I would also like to point out that my last block was erroneous, and was not a violation of the 3RR as claimed by User:Madman but rather, three reverts of User:Obedium, a User:Scibaby sock puppet on James Hansen. Viriditas (talk) 21:48, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
Viriditas, I've left a message on Arcayne's and East718's talkpages regarding this recent block of two respected users. Please view their respective pages. I'm hoping for a quicker resolution so as not to lose two good editors. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 21:53, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
I would be perfectly happy with a 1RR limitation for both editors on this article, as that would force Arcayne to actually start writing articles instead of just blanket reverting my edits three times a day. Viriditas (talk) 22:11, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
If I'm being honest, that isn't the response I was looking for. I was hoping for an "I'm sorry, I also was guilty of ......(fill in the blank)....instead of an additonal accusation against another long term editor. Care to revisit? Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 22:15, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
Oh, I apologize. I was referring to this. I have to step out for a bit, but you are right. I apologize for my behavior. Viriditas (talk) 22:21, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
At this point, I haven't heard back from the blocking admin, or the other involved party. I'm gong offline in a bit here though. Hope everything works out for the best. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 22:25, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
No worries! I'm working on developing a news article for Wikinews on the aftermath of our latest eruption in Hawaii, putting together a collaboration with the fashion project for Aloha shirt, finishing the peer review of Hippie, prepping the List of English words of Hawaiian origin for expansion, researching Niihau, and expanding Amaranthus brownii‎ to GA status. Being blocked gives me the ability to still do these things without being logged in online. I can work offline just as well. Have a great day. Viriditas (talk) 23:56, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

So that took a lot longer than I hoped....

Hi Viriditas,

Sorry to have taken so long, but I've gone over the eight disputed articles for WP:HAWAII. I've put some comments up at User talk:jonny-mt#News Bureau; I'd appreciate your looking over them and possibly adding some more of your own before we take it back to the main project.

Incidentally, now that life is more or less back to normal and I'm all used to my shiny new buttons, I'm going to swing back a little bit more to the content-creation side. Needless to say I was sad to see that I missed the DYK drive, but hopefully I'll be able to get some more good stuff up in the near future :) --jonny-mt 10:50, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Great! It looks good, Jonny. I think your opinions are sound. I see no reason not to just move the discussion over from your talk page to the project talk page. Is it possible for you to leave a brief comment for the two disputants, User:Arjuna808 and User:JereKrischel, on their respective talk pages? Perhaps letting them know that you've reviewed the disputes and would welcome their opinions? Could you also add a copy of your findings to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Hawaii/Outreach/News Bureau so we can summarize them in June's issue? If you have any other ideas for June's issue, take a look at the main News Bureau page. A portal update would be nice too, perhaps reiterating exactly what you need people do. We should have added the Portal requests you discussed in April to the May's issue, but I completely forgot. We still need people to work on featured biographies, anniversaries, quotes, and ʻŌlelo. In an unrelated matter, do you think we should protect Wikipedia:WikiProject_Hawaii/Outreach/Newsletter/April_2008 to prevent vandalism? It's not going to be edited at all at any time in the future. Please let me know. BTW, I'm working on a number of DYK's right now. If you're interested, I can give you a few. User:Makana Chai has just started improving List of English words of Hawaiian origin (along with User:The Obento Musubi), so if you can lend a hand bringing it to FL criteria, or offer critical comments for improvement, that would be appreciated. Thanks, again for following up. Viriditas (talk) 03:15, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
All right, thanks for the feedback! I'll go ahead and do that--hopefully I'll get a chance to work a bit on the portal this month as well. As for the DYKs, I've actually been saving a number of lists of places on the Big Island that I'd like to write about (personally, I can't believe Chain of Craters Road didn't already have an article), so I'll just see if I can't help out a little bit with the list as I get back into the swing of editing. Mahalo! --jonny-mt 14:07, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
Oop, almost forgot! As far as protection goes, the target audience is small and loyal enough that I don't think there's a significant enough risk of vandalism yet to warrant protection--even the Signpost is unprotected (and seems to be reaping certain benefits from this fact). Besides, any protection would be limited to semi so as to allow yourself and Obento to make last-minute changes, which means that the only people it would stop would be new users; since any new users who know enough to vandalize a project newsletter rather than a public-facing article are bound to be socks, they'd be dealt with through blocks rather than protection.
So in other words, don't worry about it :) --jonny-mt 14:44, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Response to User:67.169.127.166

67.169.127.166's attack upon User:Hokulani78 over at Talk:History of Hawaii was completely baseless and evidently a troll as I originally suspected. The IP claims to be a historian, but doesn't appear to be familiar with the scholarly literature on the subject. The published work of anthropologist Peter R. Mills specifically addresses and supports the points Hokulani78 raises and puts 67.169.127.166's comments to shame. Who should we believe, an anonymous IP claiming to be a historian who attacks editors and makes outrageous off-topic comments or this guy. Tough decision, right? Viriditas (talk) 11:35, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

New Project

Myself and several other editors have been compiling a list of very active editors who would likely be available to help new editors in the event they have questions or concerns. As the list grew and the table became more detailed, it was determined that the best way to complete the table was to ask each potential candidate to fill in their own information, if they so desire. This list is sorted geographically in order to provide a better estimate as to whether the listed editor is likely to be active.

If you consider yourself a very active Wikipedian who is willing to help newcomers, please either complete your information in the table or add your entry. If you do not want to be on the list, either remove your name or just disregard this message and your entry will be removed within 48 hours. The table can be found at User:Useight/Highly Active, as it has yet to have been moved into the Wikipedia namespace. Thank you for your help. Useight (talk) 18:41, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Return soon!

We need you! --MPerel 08:24, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Sorry

Sorry that I have been off-wiki. Hopefully my courage to return will come soon! Sincerely, –Mattisse (Talk) 16:30, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the recognition! I would like to help out with Hawaii and am trying to get back into the swing of things after being in a hospital in Maui (much to my surprise). –Mattisse (Talk) 14:44, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Thank you

Thank you for this. It seems kind of ironic that some of the rudest comments are by people complaining at WQA about other people’s etiquette! Hey, glad to see you back! --MPerel 15:47, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Flickr pics

I know you know off the top of your head the image license rules related to flickr. I want to add these three pics[7][8][9] to Greg Mortenson, they are labeled "public" at flickr, but is the license ok on these to upload? --MPerel 16:35, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Formatting corrections to hippie article

I'm really not sure what you thing was wrong with my improvements to the hippie article. I didn't delete any relevant content; I mostly just moved content to the correct sections. I also corrected the formatting of the reference and links sections at the bottom as per Wikipedia layout guidelines. Some of that content I merely moved back to its original location in the lead, which was moved to a different section for some reason since the last time I checked the article.Spylab (talk) 14:06, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

replied on user page to keep the discussion together

The Novels WikiProject Newsletter - Issue XXIV - May 2008

The May 2008 issue of the Novels WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. SteveCrossinBot (talk) 08:22, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Your input requested regarding reliable sources

Any insights you might offer to this discussion would be helpful and appreciated.  : ) --MPerel 03:48, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Line of Succesion to the Hawaiian throne

I have tried adding the numberings in line of succession to the Hawaiian throne but I can't seem to get it right the line keeping moving right. Is there any way to keep the words going down straight with numberings? I placed an <ol> symbol and it got me the numberings but it slants to the right after a while. If you put the symbol # before it, it restarts the numbering after the skipped royals. Could you try to help?KAVEBEAR (talk) 09:02, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Blocking

How do you block a user who has been vandalizing? Look at what User:Nhimexico did to the article Lydia Liliuokalani Kawananakoa. KAVEBEAR (talk) 05:03, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for the redirect link for Phra Phutthabat. Red links hurt my eyes... :-D --BorgQueen (talk) 12:05, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Re:Hippie

Sorry, I was just wikifying the article. It seems that the sections are broken. I will leave it up to you. -- RyRy5 (talk ♠ Review) 00:31, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

I could to it manually. I really just have to fix the Notes section. Comments? --RyRy5 (talk ♠ Review) 00:35, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
Yes. I was on recent changes when I saw an article with many problems, particulary the sections and refs. It looks good to me, but I'll see what I will do with the WP:OVERLINK and the other problems. -- RyRy5 (talk ♠ Review) 00:44, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

I reviewed it just to tell you. -- RyRy5 (talk ♠ Review) 02:07, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

PKD and Drug Policy

V - I saw your comments (argument) in the Philip K. Dick talk regarding his inclusion as a "Christian Writer". I made a comment, and look forward to watching the discussion. In flagging pages for the Drug Policy project, I again saw your name in the Drug abuse talk and thought I'd invite you to join us. I'd appreciate your participation, from what I've read of your work. Regards, Shamanchill (talk) 01:17, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Hello, Viriditas. You have new messages at Printer222's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Hawaii cities

The thing is that someone is insisting that Hilo is a city (see the talk page), even saying that the local government calls it a city: and I'm trying to find an explicit reference — without reading through the entirety of the Hawaii Revised Statutes — to the effect that there aren't any cities except Honolulu. My big problem is the total lack of captions for the Statutes (see Vermont for a good example) to enable me to browse through them without clicking on each section. I've tried searching for "city", but virtually everything I get deals with Honolulu: I can't find anything discussing local government statewide. Nyttend (talk) 02:17, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

It makes no difference if the Hawaii Legislature declared that there are no cities in Hawaii except Honolulu. The fact remains that Hilo is a city in the English meaning of the term, perhaps a town. The fact that the local government calls it a city is only relevant to your argument that the usage of the local government binds the English-speaking world, an argument you abandoned when it contradicted the conclusion you wanted to reach. —Centrx→talk • 03:25, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
Nyttend, welcome to Hawaii. It's impossible to find anything here without talking story for at least thirty minutes first and then trying some of the local fare. By that time, your belly is full and you've forgotten what you're looking for in the first place. :) Centrx, I don't know who is right or wrong on this, but I'm going to assume for the moment that Hilo is considered a town unless I see good evidence otherwise, so I'm leaning towards Nyttend on this. Viriditas (talk) 09:03, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
Town is okay; because of its urbanness relative to the rest of Hawaii, it is called a city in many sources. Nyttend wants to describe it in the first sentence, and possibly throughout the article, as "Hilo is a census-designated place...", which is a term invented specifically for the U.S. Census, which is less accurate than "town" or "city", and which is unhelpful to any reader of the English language. —Centrx→talk • 18:23, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Centering


How do you make she galleries centered both on top and bottom, so that the Hawaiian consort gallery is 2 by 3 and the Merina monarchs gallery has 4 picture on top and 3 centered pictures on the bottom? KAVEBEAR (talk) 07:12, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Family Tree

Do you know how to make a family tree? If you don't do you know any user who does? I make a model of it in the edit mode in the near future, not now though. KAVEBEAR (talk) 04:49, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Also you centered the gallery but it also center everying else after the gallery ends.


Fair use rationale for Image:Acia logo.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:Acia logo.jpg. You've indicated that the image meets Wikipedia's criteria for non-free content, but there is no explanation of why it meets those criteria. Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. If you have any questions, please post them at Wikipedia:Media copyright questions.

Thank you for your cooperation. NOTE: once you correct this, please remove the tag from the image's page. STBotI (talk) 14:42, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

My editing

There is no question that I screwed up by sending out that e-mail. I accept that it is a violation of the canvassing rules, and I will never do anything like that again, and will abide by whatever consequences come from that.

But since you've shown an interest and contacted me directly before, I'd like to point out that my editing HAS improved a great deal since the Arbcom, and part of the decisions the Arbcom came to even said so at that point; Pigman, Kathryn & Mattisse just can't accept it.

Here's a link to an analysis I've made of all the articles I've ever written, and every edit I've made to them since the Arbcom [10]. I posted it to Revolving Bugbear for now, asking for his comments before I post whatever would be useful to wherever it should go. Here, also, is the specific analysis of the articles written since the Arbcom.

Since the Arbcom, I have written or re-created with improvements 27 articles. They are: Ted Andrews, Badi Assad, Pamela J. Ball, Chas S. Clifton, D. J. Conway, Vivianne Crowley, Nevill Drury, Ed Fitch, Gnosticon, Grey School of Wizardry, Laura Huxley, Amber K, Sirona Knight, Lehto and Wright, Nicholas Mann, Al G. Manning, Sally Morningstar, Dorothy Morrison, Morwyn, Ann Moura, Red Dog Experience, Gabrielle Roth, Fred Schrier, Bernie Siegel, Luisah Teish, Patricia Telesco, Amber Wolfe Of these, 5 have or had internal links to either Starwood or ACE:

Amber K – I posted this one from old notes, and forgot it mentioned her appearance at Starwood. Pigman deleted it, and I did not revert or comment.

Lehto and Wright – had a “Performance Venues” section containing 18 venues, the Starwood Festival being one of them. Pigman deleted entire section as “listcruft” and unencyclopedic. I neither revert nor comment.

Fred Schrier – contains mention of his obituary/memorial of partner Dave Sheridan printed in ACE periodical Changeling Times in 1982, in text of article along with every other magazine he has written or contributed to. Not controversial IMO.

Patricia Telesco – recreated from text that pre-dates Arbcom, which included a mention of appearances at the Starwood Festival and Pagan Spirit Gathering.. Pigman deleted a good deal of the data Jan 26th, 2008 as unsourced. I replace it with citations. He has edited it since, but has not deleted the mention.

Amber Wolfe – contains an ACE link due to 3 ACE/Llewellyn Collection tapes. Not controversial IMO.

Let me also state that on Michael T. Gilbert, due to a deletion by Calton of a pre-Arbcom mention that Gilbert appeared at Starwood, the article had the non-sequetor “He also contributed to their magazine, Changeling Times.[1]” with citation. I changed “their magazine” to “the ACE magazine” with the word ACE linked to the ACE article. He reverted it to the non-sequetor, with the comment “spam spam spam spam”. (I don’t think mine was a promotional move, or an illogical edit.)

The notion that I am only creating articles to spam Wikipedia with Starwood promotions or fighting with editors about it is just not true, and certainly does not recognize the changes and improvements in my editing since the Arbcom. I think this is an attempt to re-try an Arbcom that certain editors did not like the results of. Since then, I have only written 27 articles (my total is about 70), and 85% had no connection to Starwood or ACE whatever. Of the remainders, 2 were deleted by Pigman with no opposition, one was a link to an article the subject wrote in 1982 (hardly something that could be said to “promote” anything), and one was a link to a Discography item.

When PK&M tagged over 35 articles I've written in a span of a few days earlier this year, and nominated or tagged for notability around ten in the span of a few days recently, I blew it and did something I should not have. To answer your question, thinking was the last thing I was doing.Rosencomet (talk) 22:46, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Reply

Hey Viriditas!

Nice to hear from you. I am doing fine. I'm not coughing anymore, and the day the vog came back was weird. It was Saturday, the day of the Charity Walk, and I was looking east, when I saw the sun trying to peek out. There was so much vog, the sun was unable to come out, and it looked like a struggle, at least 20 minutes long. I got some pics of it, too. The reason why I'm not on is because I have a lot of things going on now, from community service to projects to schoolwork. Blech... Kauakahi Kua'ana'au-a-kane Anyway, nice hearing from you, and take care! – Obento Musubi (C • G • S) 08:56, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Bad Radio Benefit for Amnesty SDSU 1989.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:Bad Radio Benefit for Amnesty SDSU 1989.jpg. You've indicated that the image meets Wikipedia's criteria for non-free content, but there is no explanation of why it meets those criteria. Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. If you have any questions, please post them at Wikipedia:Media copyright questions.

Thank you for your cooperation. NOTE: once you correct this, please remove the tag from the image's page. STBotI (talk) 18:21, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Bing, Bing, Bing!.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:Bing, Bing, Bing!.jpg. You've indicated that the image meets Wikipedia's criteria for non-free content, but there is no explanation of why it meets those criteria. Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. If you have any questions, please post them at Wikipedia:Media copyright questions.

Thank you for your cooperation. NOTE: once you correct this, please remove the tag from the image's page. STBotI (talk) 05:37, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Reproduction of email against wishes of author

Is a copyright violation. Doesn't seem fair. Can you make sure that that material remains removed as it should be. Thanks. 70.243.80.195 (talk) 12:22, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

ANI

[11]

I do hope you don't mean to say that you're changing your mind about Rosencomet based on the actions of this IP. If you've changed your mind about Rosencomet based on the discussion itself, I absolutely respect that, but I don't see any evidence that this IP's actions ought to be conflated with Rosencomet's.

Cheers - Revolving Bugbear 15:38, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

For the record, I absolutely swear that I have no idea who User:70.243.80.195 is. It's obviously someone who knows their way around Wiki policy better than I do; I know nothing about Wiki copyright violation policies and such. As loathe as I am to pass up help from any source, I don't know if this IS help and I'm afraid he/she may be angering editors as much as anything else. Please don't make decisions based on his/her zeal; it's not coming from me. All I'm doing at this point is trying to document that in contrast to the impression that some editors are trying to create, I HAVE improved my editing over the past year, and I hope people will not be drawn into re-trying the Arbcom and assuming that just because I am accused of continuing the same behavior re: Starwood-related articles that it is actually so. Also, I have not been contentious; in fact, through more than 50 articles my work was deleted from and nearly ten nominated for deletion, I have either not commented at all or simply discussed them on talk pages in all but a few cases. I also clearly HAVE "ventured outside of my walled-garden of interests", not that Wikipedia requires this. And I have never even been accused of responsibility for Ekajati's sockpuppetry, which far preceeded and was far broader than my editing.
This has nothing to do with the fact that I should not have sent that e-mail, and that it WAS canvassing, for which I sincerely apologize and vow never to do anything like it again, and must accept whatever is decided. I just want to point out that this should be the only issue on the table, not Ekajati's sockpuppetry from a year and a half ago or false statements that my editing hasn't changed since then. Rosencomet (talk) 17:39, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Kauikeaouli Statue

Have you ever seen this statue Waikiki Beach? Or do you know any one who does? I never knew they had any statues of Hawaiian royals beside Liliu, Kalakaua, Kamehameha, Kaiulani, Kuhio, and Kapiolani. How would a article of list of statues of Hawaiian royal go? I think that would be the prefer route since up to now I know nothing of any of the statues other than Kamehameha except for picture.

Check this Picture of Kamehameha III or Kauikeaouli at Flickr.com. Doesn't it have a resemblance to the real portrait? KAVEBEAR (talk) 04:50, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

I am starting to question if that is him. He kind of looks like a christian missionary or is it just the western coat he has on. Do you know what I can search under in Google or anywhere to find more info on this statue. I will understand if you can't. Searching under: Kamehameha III Statue, Kauikeaouli Statue is way to broad and leads me nowhere.

Archiving, hint and thanks

I guess I forgot to hit paste, before I cut and paste the other part currently archived - anyway, I've added Sandy's comment now. I guess it was good my edit-summary was not 100% accurate or it might have gotten lost. But, to be accurate for the relevant comments, I did intend it on containing the edit summary of one of the recent edits I made, prior to making this comment here.

I am very much inclined not to appreciate what you are doing, given our brief history (where my memory of you was not so positive). But, since that admin warning and WQA made against you by Arcayne, it seems that there have been positive changes which makes me want to AGF and hopefully have a more positive memory! In any case, thank you for bringing this matter to my attention. Ncmvocalist (talk) 16:20, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Comment for Ncmvocalist: Maintaining "not so positive" memories of people, i.e., carrying a grudge, is more of a reflection on the person carrying the grudge. You might consider examining why your focus in general appears to be largely on finding (and remembering) the negative in people. --MPerel 17:16, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
Comment for MPerel: And yet you wonder why I hesitate to assume good faith when it concerns either of you, when you constantly fail to assume good faith in return. I'm certainly not maintaining any such memories, just because I haven't forgotten them. You might realize (whenever you're ready) that there is genuinely only one reason why I remember the negative in you both - to date, the only interactions [emphasis on the plural] between us have generally not been positive, and by coincidence, your friend was the party to the disputes (during some form of DR) during all of those interactions. Take the hint. Ncmvocalist (talk) 18:52, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
Per your stated "hesitation to assume good faith", making things so personal with others is your own issue that you'll have to work out for yourself, for your own sake. I'm sure you've heard the expression, "can dish it out but not take it". Considering the ominous threats and negative comments you regularly dish out to so many around you, the advice I've offered you above (to consider rethinking your negative focus) is quite soft in comparison, and far more constructive. You only rob yourself if you remain defensive and unwilling to take a look at your own attitude and behavior in your interactions with others. --MPerel 19:41, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Re: John Coltrane

I'm not sure if you are still interested in this topic, but I think you'll find this interesting. Jazz critic Ben Ratliff published a book in 2007, Coltrane: The Story of a Sound. In it, he suggests that Hazrat Inayat Khan greatly influenced Coltrane's approach to music. Viriditas (talk) 14:28, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Hi Viriditas and thanks for the info. Do you have access to some citations? -- FayssalF - Wiki me up® 16:49, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
A few. Are you offering me some more, or would you like to look at them? Viriditas (talk) 21:10, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
Sure Viriditas. Thanks in advance. -- FayssalF - Wiki me up® 07:42, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Sextronica

I deleted it, they put it back a few hours later, I've deleted it again and protected it for 6 months. Gwen Gale (talk) 15:13, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Re: Morning Glory

Thank you for the reference and cleaning up the "recreational use" section.--Astavats (talk) 23:37, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

New Focus at Wikipedia:Unreferenced articles

The Invisible Barnstar
Thank you for your continued work and assistance on Wikipedia:Unreferenced articles, referencing and generally cleaning up articles that have needed attention for a long time. Your good work goes unseen unless someone disagrees ;) Jeepday (talk) 12:02, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

The huge set of unreferenced articles from June of 2006 is finally completed. Thank you for your contributions. The new focus at Wikipedia:Unreferenced articles is Category:Articles lacking sources from July 2006 which as of May 28 is only 1,322 articles and should go much quicker. Thank you to everyone who has contributed and listed themselves as a volunteer. Jeepday (talk) 12:02, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Hawaiian Religion

Mahalo! I will put what I can up there in the next two days. You da best! Makana Chai (talk) 18:56, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Category:Unreferenced Hawaii articles

There are 105 articles in this category. If each of the 38 members of WikiProject Hawaii added refs to at least one article per week, we could knock these out in three weeks. --MPerel 19:03, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Hawaii/Hawaii recent changes

I manually updated the watchlist with a merge from what-links-here for Template:WPHawaii. I did it through some AWB functions merging and removing dups, and then did some manual tweaking and there are about 400 additional articles now. --MPerel 23:49, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for doing that. I'm watching it here and already I'm seeing article issues that I otherwise would have missed. Thanks again. Viriditas (talk) 23:56, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
Oh and thank you for the yummy cookie :D --MPerel 00:00, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Alien Life Form

Good call, thanks. NawlinWiki (talk) 23:17, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Kanekapuakakuhihew

How do I deleted this redirect? I don't want to delete the article it redirects to just this one without the a at the end. KAVEBEAR (talk) 02:30, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Newsletter delivery

If you like I can deliver the newsletter tomorrow (night) June 1, beginning around 4:00 (UTC). If you think it better to deliver it earlier, it's all yours : ) --MPerel 02:12, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Confirmation

Okay, then. Good job with the newsletter! I will be back on after next week. I just finished giving my speech (for my final) and turned in a big project. Finals start on Tuesday and end Thursday, so after that, school is all pau! – Obento Musubi (C • G • S) 04:03, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! ^_^ – Obento Musubi (C • G • S) 04:06, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Hawaiʻi WikiProject Newsletter - Issue III - June 2008

Aloha. The June 2008 issue of the Hawaiʻi WikiProject newsletter has been published. To change your delivery options or unsubscribe, visit this link. Mahalo nui loa. WikiProject Hawaiʻi 04:06, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Vedder / Bad Radio

I only made the edit to the Bad Radio article, but I've been thinking about removing that sentence from both articles for awhile. Everything that I've read about the band states that they were influenced by the Chili Peppers, but I haven't seen any evidence that states that they were actually a Chili Peppers cover band. I've never read Kiedis' book so I don't know what he wrote about Bad Radio. The link that you provided states that the band was influenced by Duran Duran and the Chili Peppers. I think I'll re-write the sentence using the reference you provided to say that Bad Radio was influenced by these bands.-5- (talk) 22:38, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Hosmer's edits

Hi

Thanks for the note. I haven't finished updating the page; I will add more inline references. A question: some of the articles I've added inline references to, for instance Rene Sylva, have since been edited. The edit description is(Bot: Converting bare references, see FAQ). What does that mean? Is there something I should be doing differently when adding refs?

Thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Shannon.wianecki (talk • contribs) 00:33, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Kanaka Maoli flag

I found this on request so I created the article with all that I know but I can't seem to catergorize it. You mind checking it out. KAVEBEAR (talk) 03:23, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

I think it should be moved to a better name. Kanaka Maoli is good but it could be hard for some to understand for one who don't know the term. I wonder if there is an official name for this flag rather than Kanaka Maoli Flag.

I think it should be merged into a separate section of Flag of Hawaii unless there is a good reason not to do so. This seems to be true of most flag articles, in that they contain information and images of older flags related to the topic. Viriditas (talk) 04:03, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Ok, but this article lack a picture. I don't know about downloading pictures and personally don't want to get into that subject. KAVEBEAR (talk) 03:41, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

You're right. Flags of the World has an image for download on their website, but I'm pretty sure it is copyrighted. I'll bring it up in various forums for clarification. Viriditas (talk) 13:23, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Category:United States ghettos

The editor who created this category (SuperSuperBoi) has just created and populated a parallel category called Category:Economically disadvantaged communities in the United States. Most of his activity in the last few weeks has been invalid deletion nominations, rapidly reverted improper edits, and undiscussed category creation such as this. I am at a loss on how to proceed but, based on the comments he left on my talk page, he is not acting in good faith. - Dravecky (talk) 04:50, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for letting me know. I see you've gone ahead with a new CfD. I will be happy to vote as well as file a report on AN/I about this problem when I get home in four hours or so. Viriditas (talk) 06:16, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
I appreciate that. This SuperSuperBoi character is consuming far more of my time and attention than he deserves. - Dravecky (talk) 06:26, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm currently submitting a report on another user. Mr. SuperSuperBoi is second on my list. :) Viriditas (talk) 10:20, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
Bonus! I strongly suspect that SuperSuperBoi may also be editing as 71.142.89.127 given the topic selection, writing style, and that two of the AfD nominations made by the IP editor were completed by the registered account. - Dravecky (talk) 11:15, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
Yes, that's him. Looking over his contribs I get the feeling we are dealing with a newbie, so we should proceed carefully. Reporting a newbie to WP:AN/I doesn't really have an upside; we have to try and establish a rapport, and failing that, we can safely make a report. I know it's difficult, but we need to let this breathe like a fine wine. I too, would prefer taking immediate action, but I'm afraid there isn't any admin that will actually do anything until we can show evidence that we tried to resolve the conflict and failed. Yes, he's making some bad AfD noms and he just created two duplicate, nn-cats, but these are all signs of n00b-ness. We're on wait and see, unfortunately. Viriditas (talk) 11:22, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
I tried to give him a bit of gentle guidance on the standard courtesy of notifying an author that their article was nominated for deletion. This was his response: "step for says please consider. it is optional. it not the right thing to do for me. and i wont do it. please chill out." That cost him my remaining, normally abundant, good will. - Dravecky (talk) 12:23, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
We have to extend AGF in situations like this. He's already got one supporter leaning his way on the current CfD. Like I said above, a wait and see approach will work best here. The problem is that we are dealing with multiple issues; we need to separate them and handle them one at a time. Viriditas (talk) 12:33, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Chief's Children School

I want to move it to Royal School again but it doesn't allow me to do that since it is already a redirect page. My reason for the move is the school was officially changed to this name after Kauikeaouli absorbed it into the national Hawaiian school KAVEBEAR (talk) 03:57, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Moved to Royal School (Hawaii) for proper disambiguation. If this isn't what you want, let me know. T'anks, eh? Viriditas (talk) 09:42, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Edit warning left on my talk page

MPerel and I have reached agreement on our editorial dispute (see talk page). As for your recent revision and removal of the reference to the New York Time article, I will take a second look at it and leave a message on the talk page tomorrow before suggesting a compromise. Thank you. C08040804 (talk) 23:35, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Hawaiian Religion

Aloha. I was wondering if I could post somewhere some stuff I have written about Hawaiian religion that could then form the basis for an article after being edited by you and whoever else would like to contribute. Mahalo Makana Chai (talk) 00:17, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Alii Aimokus

All the articles on the Alii Aimoku of Maui, Oahu, Hawaii, and Kauai, would they be considered semi-legendary figures like Huangdi and Nuwa of China and the High Kings of Ireland. KAVEBEAR (talk) 07:06, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

That's a really good question. I suppose most skeptics would say yes, although I haven't really looked into it. Viriditas (talk) 12:35, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Palena

Same here also with Palena. I made Loe, Loe of Maui instead. KAVEBEAR (talk) 23:47, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Ukulele

I'm working on bringing Ukulele to Good Article status since you planted the idea in my head. Here is my checklist I created as a cleanup guide. I'd love your help if you have time. --MPerel 00:43, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

It's a good start. I would watch the red links, as you probably don't need most of them. As for your checklist, you could probably check "neutral" as that doesn't seem to be a problem. Viriditas (talk) 12:50, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

MOVING

Stop moving these articles! The Okina does not show up in the Title of the Article. There is no point in puting the okina in the title of the article because all the okina punctuation are already shown in the content of the artice. I appreciate if you stop moving all theses pages or give me a better argument on what you are doing. KAVEBEAR (talk) 03:02, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Kalaniʻōpuʻu, Kameʻeiamoku, Moʻi of Maui, Kalaniʻōpuʻu, and Kiwalaʻo.
This what I told User:Werson

My suggestion

The okina are already shown in the content of the article so the title should okina-less or replace it with Apostrophe. And the okina always show up as a ʻ if copied or placed as a title.

I rather like the one that doesn't include okinas or apostrophe. And any link with the okinas or the apostrophe should be redirects. Like for example Liliuokalani is not titled Lili'uokalani or Liliu'okalani or Liliu-o-kalani, or Liliʻuokalani, or Liliuʻokalani.

This would also help with Google searching. Mostly the articles never leave out the okina or apostrophe. That could be a good or bad thing.

But if the article is titled without okina, then when google searching Kalaniopuu people can find the Wikipedia article Kalaniʻōpuʻu. While searching the web people with no knowledge of the language wouldn't put in the different punctuations.

There needs to be a rule set sort like the rule that all article on Hawaiian monarchs can't include there Christian name and area of rule. KAVEBEAR (talk) 03:27, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Reply

Ok, but how about the moving of the articles Kalaniʻōpuʻu, Kameʻeiamoku, Moʻi of Maui, Kalaniʻōpuʻu, and Kiwalaʻo. Should I move them to the propose way I desire? KAVEBEAR (talk) 04:37, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Merging

Totally another subject

I think I asked you this a while ago. But should the articles Pāpā and Papahanaumoku? I think they do.

KAVEBEAR (talk) 04:37, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Nāmākēhā#Naea and Namakeha

Can you make #5 Child Keiki have two rows instead of one. I think it would look better like this. And what ever you answer me with, I get back to you tommorow. KAVEBEAR (talk) 06:34, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Oli

I'd like to start a new page for oli, Hawaiian chant. At present a search for oli redirects the visitor to something unrelated. How do I resolve this?

Thanks for your help. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Shannon.wianecki (talk • contribs) 19:11, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Hawaiian Anthems

Can you merge the three former national anthems of Hawaii into one article? Hawaii Ponoi, He Mele Lahui Hawaii, E Ola Ke Ali`i Ke Akua I starting to think they shouldn't be seperate articles; it should be like the Hawaii flag merge to the Kanaka Maoli flag. On this site [12] it mentioned: "HE MELE LAHUI HAWAII, (The Song of the Hawaiian Nation), was the second of Hawaii's 4 national anthems. Lili'uokalani wrote this song at the request of King Kamehameha V in 1868, well before she was Queen." Yet I only know 3 of them. Do you know? Also, can you find a user that speaks Hawaiian for me. I need to know what E Ola Ke Ali`i Ke Akua means. KAVEBEAR (talk) 07:10, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Merging is a good idea; I'll take care of it. Have you been reading the newsletters I've been sending you on your talk page? User:Singularity has been writing about using the Hawaiian language, so he's a good person to contact, as well as User:Kalathalan, both of whom speak and write Hawaiian. As for the song, E Ola Ke Ali`i Ke Akua, I think it translates as "God Save the King". I'll see if I can find the fourth song for you. Viriditas (talk) 11:06, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
The only thing I can find coming anywhere close to a "fourth" anthem is Aloha `Oe, which some sources refer to as an unofficial state song due to its popularity. (Gessler 1938) Viriditas (talk) 11:25, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
I think we should keep Hawaii Pono'i as a separate article as it is the current state song, and state songs have their own articles. Viriditas (talk) 11:34, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Fourth Anthem and More

Thanks I already contacted User:Kalathalan.

If Hawaii Ponoi should remain it own article because it is the state song shouldn't the Hawaiian flag remain its own article because it is the state flag.KAVEBEAR (talk) 05:36, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
And about the fourth anthem, don't worry. I don't think Aloha Oe should be mentioned as it isn't official only popular. I think the British God Save the King is my best guess for the fourth anthem. As the Hawaiian royals were Anglophiles and Kamehameha I was know to have used the British flag as his first flag prior to inventing his own. Also since Kamehameha IV hosted a contest for a Hawaiian Anthem with Hawaiian lyrics set to the tune of the British anthem. KAVEBEAR (talk) 05:36, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Yes, I have been reading the newsletter. And I noticed this month’s focus is Music of Hawaii. I can create some articles of the compostions of Queen Liliuokalani. But they won’t be as high quality as the articles The Queen’s Jubilee and Ku’u Pua I Paoakalani. I need your approval on this because I don’t want people to keep badgering me about the notability of the article I am writing about.KAVEBEAR (talk) 05:36, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
I created a category on Liliuokalani's compostion's called Category:Liliuokalani's Compostions but I sure it needs renaming. KAVEBEAR (talk) 05:42, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
The flag has its own article; the problem was whether the putative Hawaiian flag was legitimate. It's not currently recognized, so it should be merged into a single treatment of the subject due to limited material and ability to expand. If there are topics whose notability may be an issue, you are free to bring it up on the project talk page for discussion or create the articles in your user space so that if they are deleted, you will have copies for recreation or merging into other topics. I'm going on wikibreak for a few days. Please keep an eye on the project watchlist and revert any vandalism. You have the con. Viriditas (talk) 05:57, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Reply

Check the link you gave me and see if that is what you meant KAVEBEAR (talk) 20:30, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

I created the seperate songs of Liliuokalani because I sort of got impatient. KAVEBEAR (talk) 20:30, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
As for the merging idea I sujusted, see List of compositions and works of Princess Likelike of Hawaii. This is what I have in mind for Kalakaua and Leleiohoku. I don't think Liliuokalani will work since she has way too much. KAVEBEAR (talk) 20:30, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
Check my user page for the list of songs and translations I looked up. Those are probably my future plans for articles. KAVEBEAR (talk) 20:30, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

The Hawaiian Wikiproject Newsletter

I'm technically semi-retired, as I feel like I won't have enough time for Wikipedia from here on out. Would you mind if I added your name to the editor in chief section? I probably won't be editing that much, and face the facts. You've technically created every newsletter we've had so far with other users. I really think you've deserved the title... Trust me, I wouldn't be saying this unless I really believed it. You're a great and humble person, but I ask you to take a true look, and you'll see that you do, indeed, deserve to be titled the editor in chief of the Wikiproject Hawaii Newsletter. – Obento Musubi (C • G • S) 04:52, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Hey friend, I'll be very sorry to see you go, so please consider sticking around to help out when and if you can. Since Wikipedia is heterarchical, the title of "editor in chief" is usually seen as a "lead coordinator" or "lead editor", but I prefer to see myself as just another editor with no particular title who has the luxury to push a few pixels around during his downtime. I also tend to disagree with the current adminship model, which encourages a hierachial structure that is in fundamental opposition to the heterachy of collaborative editing. I hope you'll at least consider writing a column for the July issue, leaving us with some words of wisdom or things you would like to see the project accomplish in the next year. Would it be ok if I interviewed you as well? I've got some interesting questions for you. Again, please consider staying, if only to participate a few times a week; if you do choose to leave for a more extended period, remember the number of people you have helped along the way. You have benefited WP:HAWAII immeasurably with the creation of the newsletter, and regardless of the masthead, you will always be considered the founder (and editor-in-chief!) Safe journey, Viriditas (talk) 05:11, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
Awww, thanks! I will still be on (on occasion and in moderation, of course). I just think I need a little break, like the one I took last summer. I would most definitely be honored if you interviewed me, and I will help you with editing the July edition of the 2008 newsletter. Just keep me posted! Just know that you are an amazing person, Viriditas. May peace be with you forever (not meant religiously, but more hippie-ish). – Obento Musubi (C • G • S) 06:55, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
"May you be well, happy and peaceful. May no harm come to you. May no difficulties come to you. May no problems come to you. May you always meet with success. May you also have patience, courage, understanding, and determination to meet and overcome inevitable difficulties, problems, and failures in life." Henepola Gunaratana, see also Viriditas (talk) 09:44, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Socks and whatnot

I think you might be onto something with your note on my talk page. I don't want to say too much on-wiki, but suffice to say I'm looking into it. Mahalo! --jonny-mt 07:59, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Message received: Viriditas (talk) 05:24, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Request for arbitration re the Talk Page controversies on the Evolutionary psychology page.

To help to resolve the differences of opinion regarding the interpretation of WP policies, I have initiated a request for arbitration. See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration#Request_for_review_of_controversies_of_WP_policies_on_the_Evolutionary_psychology_talk_page

Memills (talk) 18:13, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

List of compositions and works of Queen Liliuokalani of Hawaii

of Hawaii

probably should change that, right?

of Hawaii

probably should change that, right? Do you think the works is necessary also? I just thought up title and type it in. It was originally Liiluokalani's instead of Liliuokalani's

Do you see any problems with the List of compositions and works of Likelike? Could you add a template in there that tell the article need to expanding? not underconstruction though.

Flabbergasted Too

Thanks for the concern.

I only crossed Thamarih about a year ago on Azali & Subh-i-Azal. But he was vicious from the get-go. If he is an alternate account of of Curandero101, then that goes back much further.

I'm frankly disappointed with the number of admins who never looked at the pattern of abuse and thereby failed to escalate the blocks. jonny-mt is the first to stick around for even a second look at the user. Wish they all had that follow through.

As far as I'm concerned first warning should be a day; the second: a week; third: a month; and fourth: permanent, no matter what they're for: PAs, 3RR, socks, etc., in any combination.

Tenditious users drive good editors away. MARussellPESE (talk) 03:31, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I think it is Curandero101. Well, at least you are in good hands with Jonny-mt. He's one of the best. Viriditas (talk) 03:33, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
Yes, I have. In '86. Long before the current works on Mt. Carmel were in place. Nevertheless it was moving — as any contemplative sojourn should be. I understand why pilgrimages are such a pervasive theme across so many religious traditions. Take time. Travel. Get out of your native environs, and hopefully get out of your own head while you're at it. Give it some room to meditate on questions that take some time to consider. The bigger the better. Share that process with others.
I hope you've had the opportunity to do the same — even if you do live in a place that six billion people would be more than happy to spend two weeks of their life in (Assuming you're from Hawaii - lucky bastard. ;) ).
A rather un-noteworthy experience for me was as I was taking a cab back home from O'Hare I found myself reading everything, including the cabbie's license. It dawned on me: "I'm literate again!" I hadn't really paid attention to the fact that I hadn't seen that much of the Latin alphabet in the past two weeks.
Cheers, MARussellPESE (talk) 01:54, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
April. Across the 9th day of Ridvan. The roses were in full bloom. Roses come in in Chicago in June. I got roses twice that year. MARussellPESE (talk) 02:00, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
Like I said: "Lucky Bastard." My connection to Hawaii is my Dad's. His father was stationed in Pearl Harbor in '43 - '44. Dad left his childhood asthma in Hawaii, thanks to the sea air; and took his love of biology, thanks to the sea herself. That set him on a course that intersected with my Mom later in grad school. Even though he was a marine biologist, and Navy, she married him anyway. Cheers, MARussellPESE (talk) 02:22, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

opinion sought

I am curious about the type of person who uses "Cheers" to sign off. Is it dependent on generation or on location (e.g. British) or on person type (e.g. techie type). What do you think? Signed, just curious, –Mattisse (Talk) 02:27, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

I, an American, once visited Europe. While there, I noticed that British people use "Cheers" not only to say "good-bye", but also "thank you," as well as an exclamation upon performing formal toasts with drinks, which is the only way we use it. (Think of the TV show "Cheers," set in a bar in Boston.) Chrisrus (talk) 15:51, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Tea

A nice cup of tea and a sit down

Dear Arcayne and Viriditas: You are hereby invited for a cup of tea!
Disagreements on Wikipedia sometimes turn ugly and foster distrust among editors. Soon, two users won't stand each other and will be unable to solve their differences in a peaceful, constructive way. That is a lose-lose situation. Please consider opening a truce, put aside all your past grudges and start anew. If you do, you will realize that WP:AGF is once again within the reach of a handshake. No grudge is irreversible so please sit town, and sip your tea before it gets cold. I'm sure you'll go through this. :-) Húsönd 21:32, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

More questions to ask you

I have three questions to ask you. I notice that you are involved in an arbitration. I have always wanted to know how a person keeps track of diffs for situations like that. Or do you just hunt them all down as the need arises? (Sometimes people come up with old, old diffs. How do they save them?)

The second question I can't remember right now.

The third question is more of a statement. I see that you have interactions with a person that I have major suspicions about, going way, way back. Should I email you to ask?

I remembered my seond questions. It has to do with n-dashes, non breaking spaces, and hyphens. The FAC people always get mad at me because I don't understand the FAC people's directions. –Mattisse (Talk) 00:39, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi, Mattisse. I'm responding by e-mail. :-) Viriditas (talk) 13:34, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Summary style versus POV fork

Hi. I came across your comment at Talk:Evolutionary psychology. I've read through Wikipedia:Summary style, Wikipedia:Article size, and Wikipedia:Content forking, as well as their Talk pages and some of their archives, but I didn't find any guidance on distinguishing between the two. Does the table in Wikipedia:Article size#A rule of thumb dictate size cutoffs, and any article split shorter is, ipso facto, an obvious POV fork? Could you point me towards the appropriate project page or noticeboard for more information? Thanks! Flatscan (talk) 03:46, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

The answer can be found by looking at the example itself. On 5 July 2007, the evolutionary psychology article contained a {{pov}} tag, indicating an ongoing neutrality dispute. At that time, an editor forked 40% of the article, including the entirety of the material involved in the neutrality dispute, out of the article into Evolutionary Psychology Controversies (now called Evolutionary psychology controversy).diff As you can see from the diff, there was no summary style of the material left in its place and the article was reduced from 50,977 to 31,918 bytes. After forking out the material in full with no summary style to replace it, the editor in question removed the {{pov}} tag from the article.diff. This action violated not only WP:NPOV, but also WP:SS, and the two actions together resulted in a WP:POVFORK. I hope that answers your question. Please feel free to contact me if this explanation isn't clear. Viriditas (talk) 13:20, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
That clarifies this example. I suspected that I was missing some important history. Thanks for your response, and especially for taking the time to find diffs. Flatscan (talk) 02:13, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

The Novels WikiProject Newsletter - Issue XXV - June 2008

The June 2008 issue of the Novels WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. SteveBot (owner) 05:08, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

en dashes

You never answered my question about en dashes. An now it has come up again. The link to en dash does not, for me, answer the question of when a hyphen is not the same thing as an endash (which the FAC people seem to infer that sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't). In their actions they (the FAC people) often, but not always, act as if they really mean hyphen and get angry if en dashes are put in. Could you explain to me the situations in which a hyphen vs. a html en dash is used? I think there is a third type of dash that SG alluded to. I would so much appreciate it. This issue prompted the first SG public attack on me as well as the second, and I still don't get it. Please help me understand. Regards, –Mattisse (Talk) 00:18, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Public attack ? Please take great care in the allegations you make about me, Mattisse. Dashes are fully explained at the two links I gave you then: Dash and WP:DASH. If you have further questions about them, you're welcome to ask them on the appropriate talk pages. You aren't welcome to disrupt FACs and RFAs with unfounded charges. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:21, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
I did all the major editing for that article and once I made a mistake and was punished I did not post again on that article page. What is the problem? That I am never welcome on the FAC pages, which is the way you are making it seem? I blundered out of ignorance and apologized. Further, I asked for clarification, which I never received. If I am not allowed on you FAC pages, then just say so. Regards, –Mattisse (Talk) 00:37, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
(ec) ::(ec) Viriditas, I mean the attack you noticed that led you to question me about my having hurt badly that person - whatever you saw that prompted that question from you to me. Plus comments made to me on FAC pages pages. This is a quote from en dash:

;En dashes in page names

When naming an article, a hyphen is not used as a substitute for an en dash that properly belongs in the title, for example in Eye–hand span. However, editors should provide a redirect page to such an article, using a hyphen in place of the en dash (e.g., Eye-hand span), to allow the name to be typed easily when searching Wikipedia. See also Wikipedia:Naming conventions (precision). The associated talk page name should match the page name exactly.

Minus signs

Do not use an en dash for negative signs and subtraction operators: use the correct unicode character for the minus sign (&minus;) (see also Wikipedia:Manual of Style (mathematics).) Negative signs (−8 °C) are unspaced; subtraction signs (42 − 4 = 38) are spaced.

Please help me understand. Sincerely, –Mattisse (Talk) 00:25, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
(ec) Viriditas, I want to know about ranges and in references. I virtually never use the minus sign or subtraction operators. I have tried to understand each time I was scolded. –Mattisse (Talk) 00:32, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Sorry

Sorry for messing up your talk page. I had no idea that another person would interject into my post on your page. It never occurred to me that was happening at the time. I thought I was answering you and being scolded by you for posting on your page. I apologize. I am very, very sorry. Regards, –Mattisse (Talk) 00:40, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Mattisse, you didn't mess anything up. You have to admit, that's pretty funny in hindsight, isn't it? :-) I mean, I wasn't even online! BTW, that was a good idea to take your query to the village pump. It looks like you got some good responses there! Viriditas (talk) 09:39, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Regarding the last message from Sandy Georgia

I have no idea where she is posting, nor why I get a message flash when she is posting on another's page. I know I am not allowed to post on hers. If she wants to discuss my behavior regarding the statements she just now posted somewhere, I know not where, please, I wish she would post on my page so that I can reply to them properly. I cannot find where she posted her last message with complaints about me just now. Therefore, I cannot respond, since I do not know what is going on. Regards, –Mattisse (Talk) 01:01, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi, Mattisse. I've been offline for most of the day so I'm sorry I missed your messages. I took a look at your talk page. The reason you aren't seeing the new messages at the bottom is because SG is responding to the original thread in the middle of your talk page. In the future, whenever you get a new message banner, simply click on the link to the diff below it to see the most recent message. Obviously, if you have multiple new messages, you may have to navigate backwards through the diffs, but at least you will have a direct link. Viriditas (talk) 07:34, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
Thanks! All the edit conflicts I was having threw me off. (I never did find her message so I never did respond.) Regards, –Mattisse (Talk) 22:25, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
I think she must have removed it as it's not there. –Mattisse (Talk) 00:24, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
It's still there; See User_talk:Mattisse#WP:NPA. Viriditas (talk) 00:29, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
That is a different comment made on June 10. She must have removed her tirade made a few days ago, the one she was making in the midst of my attempting to post to you on June 22. I guess this page is on her watchlist and she watches any comment made from me to you, including this one. –Mattisse (Talk) 14:02, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
Here is it on my page http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Mattisse&diff=prev&oldid=220869282 and this is the diff on you page creating the edit conflicts as I was still in the middle of my post http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Viriditas&diff=prev&oldid=220870102. I'm not too good with diffs. She must have removed it from my talk page and from yours also. –Mattisse (Talk) 14:11, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Moku or Districts

I noticed the island of Hawaii is divided into six districts of Kohala, Hamakua, Hilo, Puna, Kau, and Kona or divided into nine distrcts of North Kohala, South Kohala, Hamakua, North Hilo, South Hilo, Puna, Kau, North Kona and South Kona. How are the island of Maui, Oahu and Kauai divided? I know some of Maui's district are Hana, Kipahulu, Kaupo, and Lahaina. KAVEBEAR (talk) 08:37, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Hey, Kavebear. Everything you need is here. The main website is a great wealth of information, and you can find it here. Aloha. Viriditas (talk) 09:14, 22 June 2008 (UTC)


Birthstones

Hey Viriditas! Do u know the name of the other royal birthing stone on the island of Kauai? The one on Oahu are called Kukaniloko. There is two and I not talking about the stones associated with the month of your birth. Thanks for the help on the districts but I think name of the districts has change since ancient times. KAVEBEAR (talk) 10:14, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

I believe you mean Holoholoku. Go to Wailua River State Park or search for "holoholoku" and "birthstones" on Google books and Google, and you'll find a ton of information. The PDF link I gave you for the districts is current, so what is your question about it? Viriditas (talk) 10:38, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
I believe you mean "Pohaku Hoohanau". Thanks I look it up and Holoholoku is the heiau or temple where this birthstone can be found. Don't need to reply on this. KAVEBEAR (talk) 03:19, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
No, I mean "Holoholoku". See Joesting 1984: "Holoholoko is the place name of the area where the Birthstones and the nearby heiau are located." Pohaku Hoohanau is merely Hawaiian for "birthstone". Kukaniloko and Holoholoku are the names used to refer to the two birthstones. I think you need to look at your sources again. Viriditas (talk) 05:59, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
Oh thnaks, I think I well believe you because I not so sure myself. KAVEBEAR (talk) 05:41, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
"Don't believe me, don't believe anybody, don't accept anything based on tradition. Don't believe anything based on the fact that your community believes this or your country believes this or the people that you are around believe this." Always find out for yourself. Viriditas (talk) 02:22, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Numbering

I am trying to create Kualii's Chant which is over 600 lines long. Plus 600 more line of translations. I was think of using the format I have been using for the List of compositions and works of Likelike and etc. But I like to number these lines by intervals of 5 how do I do that? Look at my User:KAVEBEAR/Sandbox#Translations to see what I have so far. KAVEBEAR (talk) 00:03, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Are you just trying to insert whitespace? There's a number of different ways to do that. Can you give me an example below? I'm going to be offline for a few hours or more, so I'll take a look later. Viriditas (talk) 00:32, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
What do you mean whitespace? I gave you a example check here, don't know if already check it or not. I starting on the numbering by intervals of five, but it doesn't seem to be working. You see how the number pushes the word so far away. KAVEBEAR (talk) 03:14, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
I'll take a look in a few hours when I get home. Viriditas (talk) 06:05, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
Oh, ok. I see what you mean now. Unfortunately, I was reading it on a cellphone. I'll take a look now and see if I can come up with something. Good work. Viriditas (talk) 02:40, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Try using wiki markup instead of HTML. See: Help:Table And, adjust the numbers accordingly:

1 He eleele kii na Maui, A messenger sent by Maui to bring,

The CIA and the Cult of Intelligence

Hello. I'm contacting you and other members of WikiProject Books in order to find if you are interested in collaborating to expand and improve The CIA and the Cult of Intelligence article to make it worthy of becoming a featured article candidate, in light of the fact that it is the first book the U.S. government ever went to court to censor before its publication. --Loremaster (talk) 22:16, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

moving

The page could not be moved: a page of that name already exists, or the name you have chosen is not valid. Please choose another name, or use Requested moves to ask an administrator to help you with the move. Do not manually move the article by copying and pasting it; the page history must be moved along with the article text.

How do I move a page when that shows up?—Preceding unsigned comment added by KAVEBEAR (talk • contribs) 21:18, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
See WP:MOVE. If you performed the original erroneous move or if it is a noncontroversial page move, you can request deletion of the redirect preventing the new move. Alternatively, you can also request a move. Since each type of answer depends on the situation, it will help if you tell me the name of the page you are trying to move and the new name you want to give it. Viriditas (talk) 02:19, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

soy milk

Viriditas, you seem to be a native English speaker. The discussion at soy milk has come to a complete hiatus as Mythsearcher and I are having disagreements on what the material means. I think one of us is having difficulties with English comprehension. Can you please intervene and simply tell us your opinion on what the material says? I just want a third opinion on what the material is saying. Thank you. Cydevil38 (talk) 21:10, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

I will take a look later tonight. Thanks for the update. Viriditas (talk) 02:13, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Questions about Wikipedia

I wanted to ask you two questions.

1. Even tho I have more than 10,000 edits, is it still possible for me to change my screen name to a different name if I want to?

2. Speaking theoretically, if at some future time I wanted to leave Wikipedia, what would happen to my user page and the "my contributions" record? Would they still stay intact?

Thank you. Keraunos (talk) 08:41, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Check out WP:RENAME (also WP:CHUG and WP:UNC) and WP:VANISH (more information at meta:right to vanish). Based on these policies and guidelines, 1) yes, you can change your username, and 2) if you choose to exercise your right to vanish in the future, your user page would be deleted, however, your contribution history would remain intact unless there was personal information you needed removed, in which you case you could request oversight to remove "nonpublic personal information". If that doesn't help, let me know. Viriditas (talk) 09:24, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

San Francisco burrito

Thank you for your message. Let me try to explain my viewpoint. The problem with what is "common knowledge" is that it can sometimes be unclear what source or a source establishes this. Since The Forgotten Planet is a book, it is more difficult to verify that its contents claim what you say it does than say, an online source. However, even if it compiles the work of others, that does not mean that inline citation is inappropriate, or must denote merely the opinion of the authors. The preparation and consumption of food is highly subjective, and people tend to put their own spin on them all the time. Who exactly is that does not recommend using utensils to eat a burrito? I've been to lots of burrito places that sell SF-style burritos, and have never encountered this explicit admonition. Even if the book compiles sources that indeed promote this idea, this hardly holds true for every single eatery and burrito eater. Specifying the source, therefore, seemed appropriate.

As for my edits to that passage in general, there were other aspects of it that I felt needed editing:

Use the foil as a supportive exoskeleton to facilitate burrito consumption, and begin the process by tearing an inch of foil down from one end... Is all this purple prose really necessary? "Supportive exoskeleton"? And why does the tear have to be an inch? This description is far too gratuitously technical and specific.

...being careful not to bite into the foil with your teeth. In the first place, an encyclopedia should not address the reader with the personal pronoun "you". Second, does an encyclopedia really need to inform a reader that they shouldn't bite aluminum foil?

Adding salsa to the burrito before each subsequent nibble is a popular technique. I think "bite" is more inclusive, and therefore, more appropriate than "nibble".Nightscream (talk) 15:03, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

"Who exactly is that does not recommend using utensils to eat a burrito?"
"Not a burrito, a San Francisco burrito. Huge difference."
That we're already talking about a SF burrito is a given.
"The reason a San Francisco burrito is encased in aluminum foil, is so that it can be eaten without utensils."
The article states that the reason for the aluminum foil is so that it does not rupture. It doesn't say anything about whether one can use utensils. (I also surmise that it keeps it warm.)
"It holds true for every San Francisco burrito. Big difference. They are simply not eaten with utensils, and to do so, would require removing them from the tightly packed foil."
It only holds true for those who wish to adhere to that practice. You'd be surprised how single-minded and choosy some people are. If someone wishes to eat a SF burrito with utensils, that's really their call to make. The foil is hardly packed so tightly that it requires an engineering degree from MIT to remove. :-)
And you're welcome. :-) Nightscream (talk) 15:27, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
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