Talk:Ngāi Tahu

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Macron on Ngai

The Reed Dictionary tribal map has a-macrons for every "Ngati" but not for "Ngai". My page on the Maori WP says "Ngai"; maybe I can get someone from that iwi to take an interest and tell us what they prefer. Robin Patterson 20:11, 3 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Ngai/Kai Tahu does have a macron. Macrons are a relatively new addition to the transcription of Te Reo, but indicate long vowels. In this instance it is definitely long. Consistent with this functional definition, it also features on the Ngai Tahu website. I've also taken the liberty to expand it a little more, and will hopefully add more as I find the time. Your friendly Kai Tahu sociolinguist.

According to Jim Williams, the Ngāi Tahu specialist at Ōtago University, Kai is short, without a macron. So Ngāi Tahu or Kai Tahu, not Kāi Tahu. As for the Ngāi Tahu/Kai Tahu question, both have been used by people of the iwi. I understand that there were two waves of immigration by Ngāi Tahu. The first wave came without women, and married Kāti Māmoe and Waitaha women, whose children then spoke the k-dialect; the second wave brought women with them, and their children learned the ng forms. There are ng place names in the south, such as Rangiora in Canterbury, and the strange form Wangaloa on the east coast of South Otago. Koro Neil 21:29, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Ngāi Tahu or Kāi Tahu

Should the page not better be moved to Kāi Tahu? There is little use in using a Standard dialect title for the page containing most information on the Ngāi Tahu dialect... ;-) Dysmorodrepanis 14:27, 8 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I had also wondered about that. However, formally, it is still /Ng/ a lot (e.g. TRoNT, the url etc.). It probably doesn't make much odds. I certainly wouldn't object to it be Kāi Tahu with a redirect at Ngāi Tahu. --Limegreen 19:48, 8 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Keep at Ngāi for 2 reasons: (1) that's what it is more commonly known as, (2) it is what the runanga has chosen for their name, and surely no-one is more authoritative then them. Accordingly, I think most usages of Kāi Tahu should change to Ngāi Tahu (one exception being the first sentence) - ok? Nurg 07:16, 15 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Kāi Tahu or Kai Tahu

One further issue. According to Jim Williams, Otago University's expert on the iwi, the Kai of Kai Tahu has a short a: Kai Tahu, not Kāi Tahu. I found this surprising, but John C. Moorfield in Te Aka, the dictionary for his Te Whanake series of books on the Māori language, gives the following entry for Ngāi Tahu:

Ngāi Tahu tribal group of much of the South Island, sometimes called Kai Tahu by the southern tribes.

No macron. He uses the same form in the glossary of Te Kakano, the first book of the series. Koro Neil (talk) 04:34, 8 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Kāi Tahu or Ḵāi Tahu

I remember I used to see the K in Kāi Tahu occasionally being written with what I assume was a macron below (ie., Ḵ). What's the status on this spelling? --73.231.253.68 (talk) 23:39, 18 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Commerce

The Ngai Tahu tribe is considered to be one of the most successful tribes in New Zealand commercially. I couldn't find a list of their assets but perhaps someone more familiar with the tribe can help me out adding to the section.

Annual reports online would probably be a good place to start [1]. Limegreen 23:48, 17 April 2007

There should be a separate article on Ngāi Tahu Holdings Corporation describing the scale of the business, which is substantial in South Island and indeed New Zealand terms. --Lholden 23:38, 18 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I Agree that there should be a separate article. I would volunteer to draft one if needed. --Slick1nz 10.52, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

Please do. Schwede 66 01:58, 27 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

See Draft:Ngai Tahu Holdings for progress. Done research to fill article, nowhere near done as a simple shareholders search with the Companies Office shows a multitude of holdings. everything is refrenced. --Slick1nz 21.35 , 30 November 2016 (UTC)

Last paramount chief

"the last Upoko Ariki (paramount chief), Te Maiharanui". Is this correct? In the late 1970s and early 80s Riki Ellison was often referred to the paramount chief. See for example [2]. Nurg 10:06, 15 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

@Nurg: As of writing [3], said this: "Kāi Tahu has a very corporate structure, in part due to the death of an important Upoko Ariki (paramount chief), Te Maiharanui, at the time of the arrival of Europeans in New Zealand." So that's changed.

→‎Governance: I added the clarify tag, as what does the chief's death have to do with the very corporate structure? How did it change things? Ken K. Smith (a.k.a. User:Thin Smek) (talk) 07:58, 16 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Ethnic groups

Ngai Tahu are the only iwi in Category:Ethnic groups in New Zealand. Can Ngai Tahu really be considered an ethnicity? If so, surely Category:Iwi and hapu should be a subcat of Ethnic groups in NZ? Or am I missing something here? --Helenalex (talk) 05:02, 24 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

@Helenalex: It's been changed since, now has Māori‎ (23 C, 19 P) New Zealand Māori people‎ (7 C, 58 P) Category:Iwi_and_hapu is empty and not included. Ken K. Smith (a.k.a. User:Thin Smek) (talk) 08:04, 16 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Intermarriage with Pakeha

From the early 1800s Ngai Tahu frequently traded with and worked for Pakeha, especially whalers, who bought a new kind of wealth -advanced technology. By the 1840s many Ngai Tahu women -some reports say as many as 74%, had married Pakeha. Intially pakeha shared the same coastal environment as Ngai Tahu but when Ngai Tahu sold large areas of land to buy muskets,Pakeha moved onto the Canterbury plains which was virtually uninhabited by Maori due to its lack of water and the foodsin the normal Maori diet. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.62.226.243 (talk) 04:46, 15 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

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Cleanup

Fixed a couple of issues, and that Cleanup Notice is now no longer necessary, so have removed it. Snori (talk) 08:51, 13 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! Schwede 66 18:41, 13 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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2021 South Island rivers claim

The Ngāi Tahu § South Island rivers claim section could be worked up with additional background (not so easy to do from Berlin) and referencing. Below are possible sources.

Tau (2017) on Ngāi Tahu water rights ^[1]
Harris (2015) on co‑management ^[2]

Kia ora! RobbieIanMorrison (talk) 10:55, 25 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Tau, Te Maire (November 2017). Water rights for Ngāi Tahu — A discussion paper. Christchurch, New Zealand: Canterbury University Press. ISBN 978-1-98-850303-5. Landing page.
^ Harris, Rachael Caroline (2015). The changing face of co-governance in New Zealand — how are Ngāi Tahu and Ngāi Tūhoe promoting the interests of their people through power-sharing arrangements in resource management? (PDF) (Masters of Law). Christchurch, New Zealand: University of Canterbury. Retrieved 2021-12-25.

[tau-2017-1] Tau, Te Maire (November 2017). Water rights for Ngāi Tahu — A discussion paper. Christchurch, New Zealand: Canterbury University Press. ISBN 978-1-98-850303-5. Landing page.

[harris-2015-2] Harris, Rachael Caroline (2015). The changing face of co-governance in New Zealand — how are Ngāi Tahu and Ngāi Tūhoe promoting the interests of their people through power-sharing arrangements in resource management? (PDF) (Masters of Law). Christchurch, New Zealand: University of Canterbury. Retrieved 2021-12-25.

[1]

[2]