Talk:History of Haiti

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Demographic collapse

Haiti is a good country it just need a good ruler who knows what he/she is doing.

It's there in the subsequent depopulation of whole swathes of Spanish America: for Hispaniola it's as absent as reliable evidence that a few thousand conquistadores went out of their way to exterminate an entire population which they saw as labour to maintain them in the lap of luxury. Las Casas is quite clear that he wasn't there when it happened, so what's your evidence? Graculus 17:19, 24 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Gonna go away and re-check some of my research on this to answer your last (valid) question, but meanwhile a couple of points/questions: depopulation of "whole swathes of Spanish America" - surely this involved far more conquistadores than Columbus' inital forces in Hispaniola? Secondly, deaths as a result of being worked to death can still result in genocide. The Nazis used Jews and other as a work force before sending them off to the gas chambers. Granted, the Spanish did not have systematic eradication programmes - this accounts for the fact that depopulations took a few generations, rather than a few years. - AW

Sorry, Asa, I missed your reply when it was posted. Indeed Spanish numbers in (for instance) Mexico or Peru would have been greater (though perhaps not much greater in relation to indigenous population size), and the horrifying rapidity of the Hispaniola phenomenon remains a puzzle. I agree that working a people to death (or, for that matter, imposing conditions for the spread of deadly disease) is genocide when it's done intentionally. But to me it's specifically the absence of clear intent to exterminate - unlike 1942-45 - that means we have to be very careful in using the term. I don't think there's sufficient evidence that the missing million (or whatever their original number) were intentionally killed or worked to death between 1492 and 1508/14, though their loss raises questions that remain unresolved to this day. My reservation is one of "not proven" rather than "innocent", and it's precisely because of its horrific connotations that I don't want to see this understandably emotive term applied without very strong qualification in circumstances where its appropriateness is subject to such doubt as is the case here. Graculus 09:26, 29 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Sorry, but I'm new here, so please bear with me. However, I believe that claiming that the Arawak's disappeared is oversimplifying it a bit. A People's History of the United States by Howard Zinn The Indians were annhilated. WestJamesWest (talk) 20:14, 18 May 2010 (UTC) WJW[reply]

Heraldry

Somewhere in Wikipedia the exceptional heraldry of the Christophe kingdom should be discussed. --Daniel C. Boyer 01:56, 23 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Changes to 2004 Rebellion Section

I have made some modifications and provided some external links regarding the 2004 rebellion. The section as was did not address many of the accusations that the rebellion was a foreign backed coup d'etat. I have tried to provide some information about these accusations and I have provided two references regarding them. Tyrell turing 19:23, 8 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Note -- the actual wiki page on the 2004 coup now refers to it as a coup d'etat, not a rebellion. 68.193.168.214 (talk) 18:33, 21 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding thriving age in late XIX century

I wonder if what is written fully neutral? It makes it seem as Haiti was among leading countries, which I guess might have been hard to achieve, knowing the required payments to France and such... How well did it economically, scientificlaly and such compared to USA, other Carribean/South American countries and European countries? Kaiser 747 06:46, 3 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Rewrite

This article was a dreadful mess, with earlier periods ignored and a huge amount of detailed commentary about recent events, which belong in Politics of Haiti or other articles. I have done a rewrite and copyedit to fill in the gaps, reduce the last section and eliminate various opinions. Adam 10:39, 11 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Deliberate genocide

To claim many scholars feel the depopulation of hispaniola was done through 'deliberate genocide', and then use de las Casas as the sole reference to back this claim is not only not NPOV, it is intelectually bankrupt. Yes, there is evidence the native population was exploited by spanish settlers. It is equally true there is no evidence of their systematic murder. Systematic murder does not necessarily involve sophisticated methods such as concentration camps and gas chambers. It can be as simple as a placing a bounty on the head of every native killed: methods used by the english in their american and australian colonial enterprises.

There is also abundant evidence the french settlers exploited the black slaves they imported in the hundreds of thousands. Yet there is no reference to their 'deliberate genocide'.

That portion of the article needs some thorough rewording.

--Bistor92 07:13, 14 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

What more evidence do you need. It is quite a mute point. The evidence lies in the existence of people on the wrong parts of the globe. Deliberate intent is evidenced by the weapons used by the cowards that owned them; because without hiding behind the weapons they knew their victims did not possess, they would not have ventured to a square and fair fight. The mighty weapons of gunpowder gave the Europeans the confindence they needed to go around the globe and exploit, enslave or exterminate their fellow human beings. The intent was theirs the minute they set sail to foreign lands. —Preceding unsigned comment added by ArcoQui (talk • contribs) 18:15, 23 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Wrong interpretation

On the page, it is said "On May 20, 1802, Napoleon signed a law restoring slavery in Martinique, Tobago, St. Lucia and the Ile-de-France". Actually the law did not restore slavery. It did ask to maintain slavery where it has not been disappeared, which is very different. You should check the law.

Source: http://www.radiofrance.fr/franceinter/em/2000ansdhistoire/ "En 1794, la Convention avait fait de la France un des premiers pays du monde à abolir l’esclavage. 8 ans plus tard, la loi du 30 floréal an X, le 20 mai 1802, décidait de le maintenir dans les colonies où il n’avait pas disparu." Translation: in 1794 the Convention made France one of the first countries in the world to abolish slavery. 8 years after, the law of 30 floréal an X, on May 20 1802, decided to maintain it in the colonies where it has not disappeared. {{subst:unsigned-r|12:23, September 14, 2006 (UTC)|82.2.132.113||

Intrusion of personal opinion

The article "History of Haiti" suffers from the gratuitous intrusion of personal opinion at a number of places. These have no place in what should be an objective History. 68.238.126.95 05:26, 5 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Welcome to Wikipedia, the encyclopedia that you too can edit. If you see a way of bringing these passages to a neutral point of view, please go ahead and fix them. If you are unable to do that, it might help if you could identify the places in question; otherwise, there is little others can do to address the problems you detected. --Lambiam 09:44, 5 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Pretty good, just needs citations

This is a pretty good article. Obviously more could be said, but that can be done in spin off sections. I'm very impressed by the overall even-handedness of the treatment of recent history, which acknowledges Aristede's claims without necessarily being biased towards them (although I suppose it slants a little toward that side). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.82.227.246 (talk) 23:04, 30 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Rubber Project during WWII

I'm quite interested in reading something about the US-sponsored rubber plantation project during the Second World War, but I don't have any sources on it. If someone wants to include that topic, I'd be grateful. - TheMightyQuill (talk) 01:35, 4 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Pat Robertson: 18th Century Slave Rebellion caused 2010 Earth Quake

On the January 13, 2010 broadcast of The 700 Club, Robertson blamed Haiti's 1791 slave rebellion and the vodou origins of the Haitian Revolution for the Haitian Earthquake of January 12, 2010, telling viewers of his Christian Broadcasting Network, "[S]omething happened a long time ago in Haiti, and people might not want to talk about it, they were under the heel of the French, uh, you know, Napoleon the third and whatever, and they got together and swore a pact to the devil, they said, we will serve you, if you get us free from the Prince, true story. And so the devil said, 'OK, it's a deal.' And they kicked the French out, the Haitians revolted and got themselves free, and ever since they have been cursed by one thing after the other, desperately poor." ref: www.salon.com/news/haiti/index.html?story=/news/2010/01/13/haiti_robertson —Preceding unsigned comment added by MisterJayEm (talk • contribs) 21:26, 13 January 2010 (UTC) ===I hope no one wants to include the words of a television entertainer into Wiki articles. By the way, it should be remembered that the French and the Spanish before them often excused their atrocities as sanctioned by God. 172.130.54.153 (talk) 20:30, 15 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Precolonial and Spanish colonial periods

The section "Precolonial and Spanish colonial periods" from the Haiti artcle should be moved here. A summary could be kept on the main "Haiti" article.

I think most people would expect that this "history of Haiti" article to have the most extensive historical information rather than the gerneral article.

I was interested in finding pre-columbian history but it wasn't here. Only by conincidence, I checked the "Haiti" article and found something. 172.130.54.153 (talk) 19:58, 15 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Declaration of Independence

A copy of the Haitian Declaration of Independence has recently been discovered in The National Archives of the United Kingdom by American PhD student Julia Gaffield. A scanned copy is available from http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/haiti.asp along with a letter sent at the same time to the Lieutenant-Governor of Jamaica, Sir George Nugent, 1st Baronet. David Underdown (talk) 09:06, 1 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Merge needed

The supposed "summary" of this history in the article Haiti#History has become more sophisticated and up-to-date in text as well as structure. As a result, this article needs updating. Student7 (talk) 21:48, 3 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ambiguous link

"Today, descendants of those Poles who stayed are living in Casale and Fond Des Blancs. " where is Casale? The Wik link goes to a disambig. page with a lot of different communes with that name. Kdammers (talk) 05:25, 5 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion moved from article

Lets Clear This Up: Haydish people, blacks and Hation are three different types of people. Haydish originate on the north continent, as black originate in Africa, and Hation in Haiti. Get it? Many Folks get confused by this way of being, but it is true all three races have different coulters

Let's Consider This: While the above is correct in citing these various peoples as "culturally" different, they are not different types of people. All human beings are of mixed racial descent. Any attempt to culturally distinguish people based on their shared or unshared ethnicity is a dubious and cruel practice. Get It? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hengist Pod (talk • contribs) 18:13, 7 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"Coulters"? "haydish"? "north continent"? wha? --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 19:47, 7 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't get it either, but it's not a subject I know much about, so... Hengist Pod (talk) 20:06, 7 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Suchodolski's painting

Suchodolski's battle painting entitled in a text as ,,Battle between British troops in French service and the Haitian rebels." should be entitled as ,, Battle between Polish troops in French service and the Haitian rebels." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.242.33.39 (talk) 22:40, 1 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@80.242.33.39: Thanks for the change and for taking the time to explain it here. You are correct. Thanks. Cheers Caballero/Historiador^⎌ 00:11, 2 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

hi everybody

What's on my mind is that u have the best explained story ever about someone or something; I should give u five stars for that thanks🏆🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟 Mcyvenz (talk) 00:58, 31 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

We thank you for the kind words Mcyvenz. Perhaps some day you could become a lead contributor and make it even better.

Savvyjack23 (talk) 01:15, 31 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

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Need improvements to "The Foundation of a Colony (1625–1711)" subsection

I removed this passage

Slave insurrections were frequent and some slaves escaped to the mountains where they were met by what would be one of the last generations of Taíno natives. After the last Taíno (Arawak) died, the full-blooded Arawak population on the island was "falsely said to be extinct."<ref>"The Way of the Drum: When Earth Becomes Heart", Antone and Provost, 2000 in ''Proceedings of the Seventh Stabilizing Indigenous Languages Conference''</ref> Today, many people are in search of their Taíno Arawak roots, some as a spiritual movement, some as a political movement, some as a cultural movement, though none are so far acknowledged as autochthones by the political governments on either side of Hispaniola and the split between the two sides of the island has so far continued.{{citation needed|date=June 2013}}

and replaced it with the sentence:

"Slave insurrections were frequent and some slaves escaped to the mountains, where they encountered surviving communities of Taíno natives."

The sentence that begins "After the last Taino died,..." is self-contradictory. Also, it's unclear how the last sentence relates to the previous one.

I can't determine to what portion of this passage, the "Antone and Provost" citation relates, so I've removed it to here, for safe keeping.

Will an editor with greater knowledge of the topic please fix the problems and restore this passage--which appears to be relevant to the topic. Thanks :-) Informata ob Iniquitatum (talk) 06:52, 20 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Haiti

How do I find a lot of things about Haiti Janaria gladden (talk) 23:45, 4 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Decline ?

>>The Taino population declined by up to 95% in the century after the Spanish arrival,[4][5][6] from a pre contact population of tens of thousands to[7] to 8,000,000.<<

Someone should fix this. 190.166.241.189 (talk) 00:19, 10 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]